Re: "呀... 想提升 Animator 地位, 最根本o既方法系先提升動畫工業o系香港o既重要性。如果香港o既動畫工業唔重要, 就算有個工會都冇用 ga..."
Sorry to say. In order to get the creative industry recognized, the government must chip in and involve to support the industry. (I'm saying not only financially, but also a long term plan to deal with the issue of education, technologies and various related resources required to compete against oversea.) You are talking about a major overhaul of the industry. But this is the only way to create a better quality environment and more qualified people to support the need of true artists which the industry is really needed.
But like I said in the past, it seems this agenda is put in the bottom of the to do list by the government. Everything is so driven by the financial, real estate and retail industry. That's it. It is really pathetic.
香港應否成立動畫師工會?
43 篇文章
• 第 2 頁 (共 3 頁) • 1，2，3
由 Marco » 15日 6月 2008年, 23:17
>I'm saying not only financially, but also a long term plan to deal
>with the issue of education, technologies and various related
>resources required to compete against oversea.)
創意工業唔系香港o既重點發展項目... 呢個系可以理解
香港平又唔夠人平, 技術又唔夠科技大國高...
教育o既支持系一個問題, 但我覺得政府都幫唔到 d 乜, 學生報讀大專時, 好多時都會考慮出路。除非讀某科好有前途, 如果唔系就算有 Course 開都冇人走去讀。有需求有出路就自然會有人去讀, 想要精英入行就要有"錢途"。
你講到科技, 呢個系一個好長遠同好消耗資源o既投資, 就算大學走去做 research, 都唔會主力走去做同 production 有關o既項目, 始終冇利益令人咁做。就算政府支持本地大學開發新技術俾業界, 我覺得都唔會太多公司可以得益, 如果一間公司本身冇一個強大o既 R&D Department, 系好難同大學配合, 將技術放到 Production Pipeline 上。如果政府真系放大量資源配合, 只會令納稅人覺得政府偏幫我地呢行, 而行內人又會覺得政府明益某 d 大 Studio。其實香港除o左某 d 主要行業外, 其他二三線行業都會有動畫業o既情況, 政府系好難偏幫我地太多。
你講o既都系大家想解決o既問題, 但似乎而家都冇魔法可以用到
>to create a better quality environment and more qualified people
>to support the need of true artists which the industry is really
>needed
好o既 Artist 香港都有好多, 我反而覺得問題在於技術。Art 著重個人修行, 以香港o既文化背景, 本地 Artist 未必會比龍頭大國差。反而技術落後超過十年系一個事實, 因為呢個唔系個人可以做到o既事業。成日都話香港做唔到荷裡活 Quality, 呢個系一個主因。
咁冇技術支持, 你有 Artist 都冇人夠膽o系香港開大 Project la...
>with the issue of education, technologies and various related
>resources required to compete against oversea.)
創意工業唔系香港o既重點發展項目... 呢個系可以理解
香港平又唔夠人平, 技術又唔夠科技大國高...
教育o既支持系一個問題, 但我覺得政府都幫唔到 d 乜, 學生報讀大專時, 好多時都會考慮出路。除非讀某科好有前途, 如果唔系就算有 Course 開都冇人走去讀。有需求有出路就自然會有人去讀, 想要精英入行就要有"錢途"。
你講到科技, 呢個系一個好長遠同好消耗資源o既投資, 就算大學走去做 research, 都唔會主力走去做同 production 有關o既項目, 始終冇利益令人咁做。就算政府支持本地大學開發新技術俾業界, 我覺得都唔會太多公司可以得益, 如果一間公司本身冇一個強大o既 R&D Department, 系好難同大學配合, 將技術放到 Production Pipeline 上。如果政府真系放大量資源配合, 只會令納稅人覺得政府偏幫我地呢行, 而行內人又會覺得政府明益某 d 大 Studio。其實香港除o左某 d 主要行業外, 其他二三線行業都會有動畫業o既情況, 政府系好難偏幫我地太多。
你講o既都系大家想解決o既問題, 但似乎而家都冇魔法可以用到
>to create a better quality environment and more qualified people
>to support the need of true artists which the industry is really
>needed
好o既 Artist 香港都有好多, 我反而覺得問題在於技術。Art 著重個人修行, 以香港o既文化背景, 本地 Artist 未必會比龍頭大國差。反而技術落後超過十年系一個事實, 因為呢個唔系個人可以做到o既事業。成日都話香港做唔到荷裡活 Quality, 呢個系一個主因。
咁冇技術支持, 你有 Artist 都冇人夠膽o系香港開大 Project la...
-
Marco - CGV討論區會員
- 文章: 216
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由 cottonsan072 » 16日 6月 2008年, 04:23
All I can say is. For something to happen, it must starts somewhere. Of course, ideally, it should start from the top.
Regarding people going to have issue if the government put more resources into certain industry. The HK government is simply too shortsighted and narrow minded. This is one of the major problem in HK overall. We all know HK won't stand a chance to compete against mainland China and some other developing countries in any manufacturing industry. Just think about this. Other than the finance and real estate sector, HK is already loosing edge in some bread and butter industries such as logistic and tourism. Imagine if the stock market and real estate are doing bad....... Someone please tell me what is left for good.
For all the stuffs I mentioned, it requires very long term commitment in a matter of 7 to 10 years minimum in many different aspects to get things going. It is not going to be an investment can flip money immediately. For example, if you want good R&D people, how can it happen without solid education and good on-job opportunity?
Regarding people going to have issue if the government put more resources into certain industry. The HK government is simply too shortsighted and narrow minded. This is one of the major problem in HK overall. We all know HK won't stand a chance to compete against mainland China and some other developing countries in any manufacturing industry. Just think about this. Other than the finance and real estate sector, HK is already loosing edge in some bread and butter industries such as logistic and tourism. Imagine if the stock market and real estate are doing bad....... Someone please tell me what is left for good.
For all the stuffs I mentioned, it requires very long term commitment in a matter of 7 to 10 years minimum in many different aspects to get things going. It is not going to be an investment can flip money immediately. For example, if you want good R&D people, how can it happen without solid education and good on-job opportunity?
Creativity is the power to connect the seemingly unconnected
- cottonsan072
- CGV討論區會員
- 文章: 103
- 註冊時間: 26日 10月 2006年, 11:38
- 來自: NEW YORK, USA
由 wkin99 » 16日 6月 2008年, 09:27
話香港人對動畫認知不足,<這點真系好荒謬,動畫出現了成百年,香港人接觸動畫及做動畫也有一段很長時間,反而系而家d後生張動畫藝術與CG科技混淆,一味向科技技術追,卻忙忘記了自家的角色,這點真系要向日本人(如宮崎駿大師)好好學習!
再講行業發展,也不單單是動畫行,任何一行都是如此,根底因由就是我地極重"功利主義",每件事都先看有多少回報,才考慮放幾多投資,學業,做生意,甚至個人理想都如是,試問點會有好野發展到出黎!!
再講行業發展,也不單單是動畫行,任何一行都是如此,根底因由就是我地極重"功利主義",每件事都先看有多少回報,才考慮放幾多投資,學業,做生意,甚至個人理想都如是,試問點會有好野發展到出黎!!
-
wkin99 - CGV討論區會員
- 文章: 1600
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- 來自: hong kong
由 Marco » 16日 6月 2008年, 10:47
>反而系而家d後生張動畫藝術與CG科技混淆,一味向科技技術追
混淆o既系人將科技同藝術看成對立, 兩者要同時健康發展先有用...
冇人一味追求科技, 冇科技, 就算你有 idea 都實踐唔到, 只可以眼光光睇住人地做得好。搞科技o既唔系 artist, 冇混淆, CG 界 o既 Engineer 當然系要一味追科技, Artist 當然系要一味追藝術, 冇混淆。年代唔同, 動畫加入科技生產都系大發展方向, 而家連日本 d Studio 都搞科研, 香港唔好落後, 唔系過多幾年就後悔香港冇競爭力。
科技唔系同藝術對立, 以前鉛筆都系高科技... 冇筆, 當時 d artist 畫乜? 任何 Tools 都系科技, 只不過而家o既 Tools 系電腦, art o既存在價值始終冇變, 冇被眨低。科技系為 Artist 而存在, 點解 artist 要反科技?
>根底因由就是我地極重"功利主義",每件事都先看有多少回報,才考慮放幾多投資
如果呢個世界唔駛錢都可以支持o既, 大家都唔駛咁"功利", 唔功利, 就好難再有資源再向前行。美國動畫界都功利, 日本動畫界都系功利, 任何o野都有計算, 只要唔好走向極端就可以。
混淆o既系人將科技同藝術看成對立, 兩者要同時健康發展先有用...
冇人一味追求科技, 冇科技, 就算你有 idea 都實踐唔到, 只可以眼光光睇住人地做得好。搞科技o既唔系 artist, 冇混淆, CG 界 o既 Engineer 當然系要一味追科技, Artist 當然系要一味追藝術, 冇混淆。年代唔同, 動畫加入科技生產都系大發展方向, 而家連日本 d Studio 都搞科研, 香港唔好落後, 唔系過多幾年就後悔香港冇競爭力。
科技唔系同藝術對立, 以前鉛筆都系高科技... 冇筆, 當時 d artist 畫乜? 任何 Tools 都系科技, 只不過而家o既 Tools 系電腦, art o既存在價值始終冇變, 冇被眨低。科技系為 Artist 而存在, 點解 artist 要反科技?
>根底因由就是我地極重"功利主義",每件事都先看有多少回報,才考慮放幾多投資
如果呢個世界唔駛錢都可以支持o既, 大家都唔駛咁"功利", 唔功利, 就好難再有資源再向前行。美國動畫界都功利, 日本動畫界都系功利, 任何o野都有計算, 只要唔好走向極端就可以。
-
Marco - CGV討論區會員
- 文章: 216
- 註冊時間: 3日 11月 2006年, 18:23
由 cottonsan072 » 16日 6月 2008年, 14:02
This topic turns out to be a good debate of what is going on in the creative industry. Support.
Re: "反而系而家d後生張動畫藝術與CG科技混淆,一味向科技技術追", "冇人一味追求科技, 冇科技, 就算你有 idea 都實踐唔到, 只可以眼光光睇住人地做得好" & "香港唔好落後, 唔系過多幾年就後悔香港冇競爭力"
Because of what I'm dealing with, about a year ago, I actually discussed about the creative industry's situation in Hong Kong with a good friend of mine who is a highly ranked creative executive in a 4A agency in New York (He handles print, TVC and interactive.) He feels many of the new young artists nowadays EVERYWHERE depend on technologies too much that the true art sense is gone. This is why new art director in many oversea agencies have extremely high turnover rate because creative executive are still looking for people with good traditional art sense and have their own unique style. If they can't deliver what they are expected, the seats won't be warm for them. Take photography as an example, as a decision maker, I encountered so many young kids with fancy digital camera, know how to press the shutter and have some knowledge of Photoshop. Many portfolios I saw are complete garbage. These kids have absolutely no knowledge about lighting and elements composition - the 2 basic elements of a good photograph. But some of these kids still think their works are masterpieces and they have the ball to question about my judgement. Of course, they didn't stand a chance to be hired. I only can say artists who depends on technologies too much or have no art sense are OPERATOR type of artist at best. It is very difficult for them to develop any further or better. This is a clear case of why art students should figure out a balance between art and technology so they can utilize technologies to just help them in the thinking process instead of totally depend on it.
My friend and I both agree that Hong Kong is not a bad place to develop the creative industry. Other than Japan, HK people still think outside of the box far better than many other Asian countries (1 or 2 may be close but still lagging.) In order for HK's to compete, like I said before, it needs major overhaul from top to bottom to correct a lot of things. It will be a painstaking process. It requires efforts from various level of people with vision about the future of this industry and take ROI as second priority.
Re: "好o既 Artist 香港都有好多, 我反而覺得問題在於技術。Art 著重個人修行, 以香港o既文化背景, 本地 Artist 未必會比龍頭大國差。反而技術落後超過十年系一個事實, 因為呢個唔系個人可以做到o既事業。成日都話香港做唔到荷裡活 Quality, 呢個系一個主因. 咁冇技術支持, 你有 Artist 都冇人夠膽o系香港開大 Project la..."
If you talk about animation for the motion picture industry and extreme high-end TVC production only, I totally agree because these studios do spend a lot of money to get the best artists and have a massive R&D department to constantly improve their workflow and solve problems. This is something that many places can't match.
Other than the extreme cases like above, I can't agree with the rest about the deciding factor of technology vs a good artist. There are still ample of opportunities worldwide and the playing fields are level for all of us. For example, one new ad agency I'm dealing with is still 300 people short and about half of them are creative positions. (But they are looking for artists and creative staffs with good art sense only. The interactive advertising creative sectors in both the US and Europe are still, at least, 15% - 20% short of people with motion graphic experience in order to support the growth in the coming years.
We all use the same software and hardware. It is a matter of whether the artists can use technology as a tool only to utilize their thinking process instead of totally depend on it. For example. Brazil is still considered a developing country in many standard, but the development of it's CG creative industry is incredible. Some of their CG composite print works I saw can virtually compete against Europe. Many of them I know have very limited financial resources to catch up with the latest technologies. They do it by having very good traditional art or photographic sense and being able to think outside of the box.
Re: "以香港o既文化背景........."
HK is well known as a desert of culture. It will takes time, some dedicated people and financial resources to avert this phenomenon or improve the industry.
Re: "反而系而家d後生張動畫藝術與CG科技混淆,一味向科技技術追", "冇人一味追求科技, 冇科技, 就算你有 idea 都實踐唔到, 只可以眼光光睇住人地做得好" & "香港唔好落後, 唔系過多幾年就後悔香港冇競爭力"
Because of what I'm dealing with, about a year ago, I actually discussed about the creative industry's situation in Hong Kong with a good friend of mine who is a highly ranked creative executive in a 4A agency in New York (He handles print, TVC and interactive.) He feels many of the new young artists nowadays EVERYWHERE depend on technologies too much that the true art sense is gone. This is why new art director in many oversea agencies have extremely high turnover rate because creative executive are still looking for people with good traditional art sense and have their own unique style. If they can't deliver what they are expected, the seats won't be warm for them. Take photography as an example, as a decision maker, I encountered so many young kids with fancy digital camera, know how to press the shutter and have some knowledge of Photoshop. Many portfolios I saw are complete garbage. These kids have absolutely no knowledge about lighting and elements composition - the 2 basic elements of a good photograph. But some of these kids still think their works are masterpieces and they have the ball to question about my judgement. Of course, they didn't stand a chance to be hired. I only can say artists who depends on technologies too much or have no art sense are OPERATOR type of artist at best. It is very difficult for them to develop any further or better. This is a clear case of why art students should figure out a balance between art and technology so they can utilize technologies to just help them in the thinking process instead of totally depend on it.
My friend and I both agree that Hong Kong is not a bad place to develop the creative industry. Other than Japan, HK people still think outside of the box far better than many other Asian countries (1 or 2 may be close but still lagging.) In order for HK's to compete, like I said before, it needs major overhaul from top to bottom to correct a lot of things. It will be a painstaking process. It requires efforts from various level of people with vision about the future of this industry and take ROI as second priority.
Re: "好o既 Artist 香港都有好多, 我反而覺得問題在於技術。Art 著重個人修行, 以香港o既文化背景, 本地 Artist 未必會比龍頭大國差。反而技術落後超過十年系一個事實, 因為呢個唔系個人可以做到o既事業。成日都話香港做唔到荷裡活 Quality, 呢個系一個主因. 咁冇技術支持, 你有 Artist 都冇人夠膽o系香港開大 Project la..."
If you talk about animation for the motion picture industry and extreme high-end TVC production only, I totally agree because these studios do spend a lot of money to get the best artists and have a massive R&D department to constantly improve their workflow and solve problems. This is something that many places can't match.
Other than the extreme cases like above, I can't agree with the rest about the deciding factor of technology vs a good artist. There are still ample of opportunities worldwide and the playing fields are level for all of us. For example, one new ad agency I'm dealing with is still 300 people short and about half of them are creative positions. (But they are looking for artists and creative staffs with good art sense only. The interactive advertising creative sectors in both the US and Europe are still, at least, 15% - 20% short of people with motion graphic experience in order to support the growth in the coming years.
We all use the same software and hardware. It is a matter of whether the artists can use technology as a tool only to utilize their thinking process instead of totally depend on it. For example. Brazil is still considered a developing country in many standard, but the development of it's CG creative industry is incredible. Some of their CG composite print works I saw can virtually compete against Europe. Many of them I know have very limited financial resources to catch up with the latest technologies. They do it by having very good traditional art or photographic sense and being able to think outside of the box.
Re: "以香港o既文化背景........."
HK is well known as a desert of culture. It will takes time, some dedicated people and financial resources to avert this phenomenon or improve the industry.
Creativity is the power to connect the seemingly unconnected
- cottonsan072
- CGV討論區會員
- 文章: 103
- 註冊時間: 26日 10月 2006年, 11:38
- 來自: NEW YORK, USA
由 A00017940 » 16日 6月 2008年, 15:30
Great topics here, and I agree with cottonsan072.
That reminds me about my mentors from dreamworks and ILM always say "don't let the computer do too much work while you are animating."
I think technology can be an aid to the art form, while the basis of the art form is the most important.
That reminds me about my mentors from dreamworks and ILM always say "don't let the computer do too much work while you are animating."
I think technology can be an aid to the art form, while the basis of the art form is the most important.
- A00017940
- 討論區新秀
- 文章: 97
- 註冊時間: 14日 11月 2005年, 01:36
- 來自: HKG -> VAN -> HKG
由 cgraymond » 16日 6月 2008年, 18:21
Even we have got the talents and the technology, a big obstacle to the industry is the "Hong Kong style" production management.
Short pre-production mess up the whole production while tight scdedule makes animators suffer from working over time.
Time is a very important factor in creative industry.
Having a tight schedule, how can the talents be creative and learn.
A local studio even thought they can produce 2 CGI film for every three years, and they develop tools aims to "help" animators to work faster and faster.
I always believe that giving them a little bit more time, we will be impressed.
Short pre-production mess up the whole production while tight scdedule makes animators suffer from working over time.
Time is a very important factor in creative industry.
Having a tight schedule, how can the talents be creative and learn.
A local studio even thought they can produce 2 CGI film for every three years, and they develop tools aims to "help" animators to work faster and faster.
I always believe that giving them a little bit more time, we will be impressed.
- cgraymond
- 討論區新秀
- 文章: 6
- 註冊時間: 26日 6月 2007年, 21:21
由 Marco » 16日 6月 2008年, 20:38
>This topic turns out to be a good debate of what is going on in the
>creative industry. Support.
而家有幾個人用唔同角度發言, 幾好!
>He feels many of the new young artists nowadays EVERYWHERE
>depend on technologies too much that the true art sense is gone.
呢點我覺得完全系, 只因大家要做o既o野越來越 Technical, 越來越復雜...
一個學生如果走去讀一個三年制o既Course, 掌握到"技術"就學唔到佢作為artist應該學o既o野。
我以搞Web為例, 一個 Web Designer 走去操 Actionscript, 好多時都搞到一鑊泡, 仲要操埋 graphic design... 所以你話"art sense is gone"我認同。
>I only can say artists who depends on technologies too much
>or have no art sense are OPERATOR type of artist at best.
我指o既 Technology 唔系指 artist 用 Software o既 Skill !!! 系指業界要 develop 自己o既 Tools, 去提高生產力或者提高作品質素。
其實, 一開始大家指o既 "技術" 已經唔系同一件事, 大家o既立場基本上系冇沖突。我指o既技術提升系要提升一個地區o既科技水平, 唔系叫o個個地區o既 artist 操 software!
>This is a clear case of why art students should figure out a
>balance between art and technology
如果用我o既語言講, 我不如叫呢個做 software techniques, 咁大家再討論時會冇咁混淆。
>If you talk about animation for the motion picture industry and
>extreme high-end TVC production only, I totally agree because
>these studios do spend a lot of money to get the best artists and
>have a massive R&D department to constantly improve their
>workflow and solve problems. This is something that many places
>can't match.
我主要系講呢方面o既 production。
>Other than the extreme cases like above, I can't agree with
>the rest about the deciding factor of technology vs a good artist.
有兩點會令我地言語上會有分歧
1. 如果只以 animator 為討論要點, 呢個唔系 Extreme Case
2. 我由頭到尾都講 R&D 同 Technology, 呢個唔系 artist o既工作范圍, 亦唔會影響到 artist o既 art sense, 我強調呢o度至少系三批人。Artist, Technical Director 同 R&D Engineer。(但我知令你眼火爆o既 software operator 系邊種
) 我修正我講o既范圍只系 Animation Production, 唔包括 Creative o既工種, 我講o既只系 production, 同創作冇直接關系。
>That reminds me about my mentors from dreamworks and ILM
>always say "don't let the computer do too much work while you
>are animating."
如果講"while you are animating", 呢個真系唔系 technology o既事, 因為佢講o既o系 set motion, 呢個系演戲同story telling o既問題。
但如果你睇一睇, 發覺其實搞得最多 technology o既就系 ILM, Dreamworks 同 Pixar... 佢地一向都系對 Technology 重視, 佢地甚至乎連 animator 用o既 Software 都系自己 Develop, 佢地真系唔認同 Technology?
我諗呢句說話o既原意系 "要將個焦點放o系animation o既演繹上, 唔好濫用 software"
如果用呢個方向解釋, ILM 同 Dreamworks 就更加應該要提升 technology, 令俾 artist 用o既 tools 更加易用, 令 artist 唔需要考慮技術限制。
而且, 有好多工序唔系人手做到, 亦唔關 art sense 事, 系咪 Pixar 走去加強 PRMan o既功能就話人地罪大惡極? 要分清楚邊 d 位系科技做o既事, 邊 d 系人做o既事... 我諗如果 Pixar 唔去 Develop 佢地o既 renderer, 班 artist 再有 art sense 都好, render 出o黎 d 畫質都系會唔靚, 如果我咁講, 大家開始明白乜系我心中o既技術嗎?
>A local studio even thought they can produce 2 CGI film for every
>three years, and they develop tools aims to "help" animators to
>work faster and faster.
>I always believe that giving them a little bit more time, we will be
>impressed.
完全同意。呢個先系 artist 需要 tools o既原因。Technology唔系要搶走 artist 個腦, 只系要幫佢對手。
如果大家對 Technology 反感的話, 我相信主要原因系太多 artist 唔系學 art, 而系學 software! 但錯不在 software, 而系用 software o既人o既心態。如果有人只識操作 Photoshop 而冇 art sense, 呢個唔系 photoshop o既錯, 亦唔系 wacom o既錯, 呢兩樣只不過系紙同筆, 同其他 Technology 一樣, 都只系工具。如果你系一個有質素o既 artist, 你唔應該反對 technology 發展, 因為佢系要令你o既工作變得如虎添翼。
如果而家某 d artist 做o既工作太 technical 的話, 例如寫 actionscript同javascript, 你應該將呢方面o既工作分俾 programmer 做, 唔好再因為 artist 操 software o既問題而對 Technology o既發展持有負面睇法。
>creative industry. Support.
而家有幾個人用唔同角度發言, 幾好!
>He feels many of the new young artists nowadays EVERYWHERE
>depend on technologies too much that the true art sense is gone.
呢點我覺得完全系, 只因大家要做o既o野越來越 Technical, 越來越復雜...
一個學生如果走去讀一個三年制o既Course, 掌握到"技術"就學唔到佢作為artist應該學o既o野。
我以搞Web為例, 一個 Web Designer 走去操 Actionscript, 好多時都搞到一鑊泡, 仲要操埋 graphic design... 所以你話"art sense is gone"我認同。
>I only can say artists who depends on technologies too much
>or have no art sense are OPERATOR type of artist at best.
我指o既 Technology 唔系指 artist 用 Software o既 Skill !!! 系指業界要 develop 自己o既 Tools, 去提高生產力或者提高作品質素。
其實, 一開始大家指o既 "技術" 已經唔系同一件事, 大家o既立場基本上系冇沖突。我指o既技術提升系要提升一個地區o既科技水平, 唔系叫o個個地區o既 artist 操 software!
>This is a clear case of why art students should figure out a
>balance between art and technology
如果用我o既語言講, 我不如叫呢個做 software techniques, 咁大家再討論時會冇咁混淆。
>If you talk about animation for the motion picture industry and
>extreme high-end TVC production only, I totally agree because
>these studios do spend a lot of money to get the best artists and
>have a massive R&D department to constantly improve their
>workflow and solve problems. This is something that many places
>can't match.
我主要系講呢方面o既 production。
>Other than the extreme cases like above, I can't agree with
>the rest about the deciding factor of technology vs a good artist.
有兩點會令我地言語上會有分歧
1. 如果只以 animator 為討論要點, 呢個唔系 Extreme Case
2. 我由頭到尾都講 R&D 同 Technology, 呢個唔系 artist o既工作范圍, 亦唔會影響到 artist o既 art sense, 我強調呢o度至少系三批人。Artist, Technical Director 同 R&D Engineer。(但我知令你眼火爆o既 software operator 系邊種
) 我修正我講o既范圍只系 Animation Production, 唔包括 Creative o既工種, 我講o既只系 production, 同創作冇直接關系。
>That reminds me about my mentors from dreamworks and ILM
>always say "don't let the computer do too much work while you
>are animating."
如果講"while you are animating", 呢個真系唔系 technology o既事, 因為佢講o既o系 set motion, 呢個系演戲同story telling o既問題。
但如果你睇一睇, 發覺其實搞得最多 technology o既就系 ILM, Dreamworks 同 Pixar... 佢地一向都系對 Technology 重視, 佢地甚至乎連 animator 用o既 Software 都系自己 Develop, 佢地真系唔認同 Technology?
我諗呢句說話o既原意系 "要將個焦點放o系animation o既演繹上, 唔好濫用 software"
如果用呢個方向解釋, ILM 同 Dreamworks 就更加應該要提升 technology, 令俾 artist 用o既 tools 更加易用, 令 artist 唔需要考慮技術限制。
而且, 有好多工序唔系人手做到, 亦唔關 art sense 事, 系咪 Pixar 走去加強 PRMan o既功能就話人地罪大惡極? 要分清楚邊 d 位系科技做o既事, 邊 d 系人做o既事... 我諗如果 Pixar 唔去 Develop 佢地o既 renderer, 班 artist 再有 art sense 都好, render 出o黎 d 畫質都系會唔靚, 如果我咁講, 大家開始明白乜系我心中o既技術嗎?
>A local studio even thought they can produce 2 CGI film for every
>three years, and they develop tools aims to "help" animators to
>work faster and faster.
>I always believe that giving them a little bit more time, we will be
>impressed.
完全同意。呢個先系 artist 需要 tools o既原因。Technology唔系要搶走 artist 個腦, 只系要幫佢對手。
如果大家對 Technology 反感的話, 我相信主要原因系太多 artist 唔系學 art, 而系學 software! 但錯不在 software, 而系用 software o既人o既心態。如果有人只識操作 Photoshop 而冇 art sense, 呢個唔系 photoshop o既錯, 亦唔系 wacom o既錯, 呢兩樣只不過系紙同筆, 同其他 Technology 一樣, 都只系工具。如果你系一個有質素o既 artist, 你唔應該反對 technology 發展, 因為佢系要令你o既工作變得如虎添翼。
如果而家某 d artist 做o既工作太 technical 的話, 例如寫 actionscript同javascript, 你應該將呢方面o既工作分俾 programmer 做, 唔好再因為 artist 操 software o既問題而對 Technology o既發展持有負面睇法。
-
Marco - CGV討論區會員
- 文章: 216
- 註冊時間: 3日 11月 2006年, 18:23
由 A00017940 » 16日 6月 2008年, 21:39
oh..! I thought my comments earlier is quite neutral..
I have all the respect to technology development. I learn the software before I learn to sketch poses myself too. Without technology, I think I was out of job already.
I am just saying technology help aid the art form, but the basis of the art form is important also.
Sorry if I offended anyone here, I will keep silent.
I have all the respect to technology development. I learn the software before I learn to sketch poses myself too. Without technology, I think I was out of job already.
I am just saying technology help aid the art form, but the basis of the art form is important also.
Sorry if I offended anyone here, I will keep silent.
- A00017940
- 討論區新秀
- 文章: 97
- 註冊時間: 14日 11月 2005年, 01:36
- 來自: HKG -> VAN -> HKG
由 WildSeven » 16日 6月 2008年, 22:47
同意marco 的觀點. 我以下的觀點是討論vfx / 3d animation 的制作.
technology 的重要性在於更有效地分配公司的支源.
artist做較好的task,就讓artist完成.應該讓電腦自動化的task,就讓電腦完成.
而techincal director , R&D部門就是控制電腦支源的重要角色
兩者是相輔互承的.有充足的technique support, artist 才能把主要時間和精神投入creative 的工作上.
簡單如update maya scene file:
1)你可以人手open scene, 再逐個replace by new object (浪費時間, 容易出錯)
2)搵TD/programmer, 寫c/c++ progam, 對應ma file 中的code 自動replace (外國大studio 的standard pipeline)
有些人覺得這只是一個小問題, 好像跟公司的作品quality 關系不大.事實上, 工作流程上這程度的"小"問題多不勝數, 所謂量變到質變.
我覺得對大部份香港vfx studio而言, 現階段對technology 的需求並不是要追 ILM, pixar的level, 市面上的software大都可滿足工作的需要. 問題是公司有聘請足夠的technical staff 作支援讓artist能有效率地應用電腦和software嗎?
technology 的重要性在於更有效地分配公司的支源.
artist做較好的task,就讓artist完成.應該讓電腦自動化的task,就讓電腦完成.
而techincal director , R&D部門就是控制電腦支源的重要角色
兩者是相輔互承的.有充足的technique support, artist 才能把主要時間和精神投入creative 的工作上.
簡單如update maya scene file:
1)你可以人手open scene, 再逐個replace by new object (浪費時間, 容易出錯)
2)搵TD/programmer, 寫c/c++ progam, 對應ma file 中的code 自動replace (外國大studio 的standard pipeline)
有些人覺得這只是一個小問題, 好像跟公司的作品quality 關系不大.事實上, 工作流程上這程度的"小"問題多不勝數, 所謂量變到質變.
我覺得對大部份香港vfx studio而言, 現階段對technology 的需求並不是要追 ILM, pixar的level, 市面上的software大都可滿足工作的需要. 問題是公司有聘請足夠的technical staff 作支援讓artist能有效率地應用電腦和software嗎?
-
WildSeven - 討論區新秀
- 文章: 45
- 註冊時間: 13日 3月 2004年, 12:23
- 來自: 阿以卑斯山
由 Marco » 16日 6月 2008年, 23:12
>我覺得對大部份香港vfx studio而言, 現階段對technology 的需求並不是要
>追 ILM, pixar的level
唉, 真系落後太多, 勝負一早已定
我去到 SIGGRAPH 睇 ILM o既 R&D Department Present 佢地 d 新 Tools 時 (ILM 自己用 only)... 真系睇到我眼都凸埋呀大佬...
連 Digital Domain 都 Present 佢地自己開發o既自動抹 Wire software... (見到台上 Present o既怕羞妹妹, 真系同佢個 project o既殺傷力成反比 )。雖然唔系要追, 但有眼睇到o既系... 過多幾年就算想接外國抹 Wire d job 都可能冇份呀, 驚唔驚?
我覺得要進步, 只不過系唔好令香港o既動畫業完成歷史任務。
>市面上的software大都可滿足工作的需要. 問題是公司有聘請足夠的
>technical staff 作支援讓artist能有效率地應用電腦和software嗎?
呀... 剩系班 TDs 玩 Maya d bugs 都夠你死十次
好多時 d Animator 都只系為一 d 不可思議o既 Error 通宵, 幾唔抵!
>追 ILM, pixar的level
唉, 真系落後太多, 勝負一早已定
我去到 SIGGRAPH 睇 ILM o既 R&D Department Present 佢地 d 新 Tools 時 (ILM 自己用 only)... 真系睇到我眼都凸埋呀大佬...
連 Digital Domain 都 Present 佢地自己開發o既自動抹 Wire software... (見到台上 Present o既怕羞妹妹, 真系同佢個 project o既殺傷力成反比
)。雖然唔系要追, 但有眼睇到o既系... 過多幾年就算想接外國抹 Wire d job 都可能冇份呀, 驚唔驚?
我覺得要進步, 只不過系唔好令香港o既動畫業完成歷史任務。
>市面上的software大都可滿足工作的需要. 問題是公司有聘請足夠的
>technical staff 作支援讓artist能有效率地應用電腦和software嗎?
呀... 剩系班 TDs 玩 Maya d bugs 都夠你死十次
好多時 d Animator 都只系為一 d 不可思議o既 Error 通宵, 幾唔抵!
最後由 Marco 於 17日 6月 2008年, 01:22 編輯，總共編輯了 1 次。
-
Marco - CGV討論區會員
- 文章: 216
- 註冊時間: 3日 11月 2006年, 18:23
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