3D 在 product design 常用嗎?

[Calvinprince]

有沒有人知道 3D 在 product design 是否常用呢?
Actually i am very like working in the 3D game company,but in this time seems not many game company are looking for
people ,so i want to take a product design course , and do
the 3D in product design.
so does anyone know if i know how to use the 3D software,does i have advantage in doing the product design???
thanks

[Siegfried]

I'm a product designer using several 3D software and 2D software, in the industries, using 3D is not a must, but of course U'll have a small advantages n using it. E.g. In a big but conservative watch manufacturing company, which software U suggest they use, 3D took tremendous longer time to make one rendering but could be able to prepare IGES file for CNC to make product prototype and the presentation for the client would be far better. If 2D software is used, 2D rendering produced each day would be far more and it could be a benefit for the company. Let me tell you another fact about the product design, people now are using Photoshop to paint and draw a fake 3D rendering with acceptable finishing, I say acceptable for my own standard but for the boss, its already passed. Also remember, 3D software costed much more, including software cost, software maintenance and hardware cost.

[Calvinprince]

Thanks!

[Jerry Huang]

Basically, I think you got confused about visual model and precise model. Most animation's models are visual models and Almost products are precise model. The differences between visual models and precise models is whether the model could be producted or not. the visual model is not necessary to be producted, but the precise model is necessary to be producted. So, you don't have professionl skill to do product design right now. Suppose you want to do product design, you need to learn ProE, Alias, and Rhino instead of Maya, Max, and Lightwave. That's different!

[Siegfried]

It seems that, maya can be output as IGES form for CNC prototyping.
And for the other CG softwares like Max, XSI, LW...can be output as STL format for rapid prototyping. They can all be used for the industry but the demerit is the difficult task left for the engineer to trace all of the curve and surface by rough estimation.
The workflow I prefer was - Rhino+SolidWork, then Max for rendering and animated explode view and camera movement.
What Jerry Huang said about the technique was correct, being able to model the appearance is different from modelling the internal structure and solving molding problem(like sliding, web, minimum wall thickness, material flow, reinforcement, tensile properties, engineering specification etc).
Product design is a tough, hard and very low paid job.
That's why Product Designer is a 'Poor men's job'!

[Jerry Huang]

Yes, being able to model the appearance is different from modeling the internal structure and solving molding problem. For example, you can build a cup in CG software like Max, LW, or in a CAD software like SolidWork, and ProE. You just look the cup’s appearance, and only the cup’s cover wrap the cup. It seems O.K. for the model. Anyway, it’s not only wrapping issue, also the cup’s cover and cover should be correct and could be matched exactly for CAD model. Otherwise, it will suffer from a lot of problem when the model is output for rapid prototyping, because CAD models need concern about internal structure, like Siegfried’s saying. For most CG models are not necessary to be output for rapid prototyping.
Also, the Mathematic structure of CG models are different from that of CAD models. Modeling in CG software is visual, and modeling in CAD software is mathematical and parametric. Therefore, it’s more tough to model in CAD software than that of CG software. Most CG modeling software adapt surface modeling technique, and most CAD software adapt solid modeling technique except Alias and Rhino. Surface modeling means that inside of a model is “empty”. Solid modeling means that inside of a model is “full” or “real”. The reason of CG modeling using surface modeling rather than solid modeling technique is you only need to see the “appearance” of CG models, so you don’t need to care the inside of models. For CAD’s models is different, because it need care about the internal structure problem.

[Siegfried]

Jerry Huang, you are real pro in this field. I often found solid modelling troublesome due to the geometric and modelling constraint, that's why I 'gen' a surface from Rhino to Solidwork to cut an enclosed object and edit the detail such as variable fillet, draft angle, web etc...
Rhino is easy to be manipulated but Design Studio is another issue, Design Studio is hard to be used but powerful in editing the surface by draging. The deformation and error of the surface export from modelling to CNC is rather low as well, it's been improve during these few years.
By the way,Jerry Huang, can you tell me about your work flow?

[Jerry Huang]

Hi! Siegfried:
Sorry, It's late to reply your mail. Generally I am on line from 9:00 pm to 11:30pm except Thursday, and also from 10:00 am to 16:00 pm on weekend. Another question is I don't know whay you say about "gen". What's that meaning?
The other issue is I am not a CAD designer or user. Mostly, I working field is from image processing, visual effect, to computer animation. Sometime I am interested in CAD software. I didn't use it, and just try to know the principle of CG and CAD.
I used Alias is about ten years ago, and changed to Maya and MAX from a couple of years ago.
You look so sad. why you say Product Designer is a 'Poor men's job'!
Relax! don't you?

[Siegfried]

Jerry Huang:
I'm rather morose as my paid was relatively lower when compared with my friends(same age and same background) who work in other area, I've been a designer for 5 yrs, and have been using 3D for 8 yrs but so what, the paid was rather low even you say product design is something unique and not easy to master due to technical constraint and knowledge, I still got a long road to run and a lot to learn of course, but the paid...
I was a product engineer before I applied for product designer, I changed my field as I think being a designer is something cool and can be off the work and enjoy beers and coffee in Lan Kwai Fong in 4:30p.m., and get well paid, living in great house, driving sports cars, having hot girls, looking good and cool blablabla...but the reality is somewhat to the opposite, quite depressing!
What I found ironic is that I even have to work harder and longer than before, but the feeling of satisfaction is something hard to describe, especially when you saw your product sold in local and overseas shops.
By the way, 'gen' means generate, we used to use this term long time ago, and I learnt this term from the lecturer.
I used Design Studio before, but nothing offensive and personal, I think the rendering engine of Design Studio is not as good as Max or even Rhino with Flamingo, but the modelling workflow of Design Studio is quite good, similar to Maya, especially when you drag the CV of the surface, this is a cool function in that time of days.
Nice talking to you.

[xam]

Hi Sieg! Glad to know that you are a product designer. One of my works (jobs) is to teach 3dsmax to product design students who normally are also product designers too. I realized that being a designer (almost every kind) in HK is really very poor...... but i think the fact is that being a human being without "dreams" is poor and that's what the HK environment (Government, Business man, Education) makes it happened.

So keep on designing! Don't give up! Make your dreams come true....

Like me, I am making character animations using 3dsmax..... because I think it is very interesting. I donno whether it will make money or not but I will do that.

[Siegfried]

Using CG makes me feel that I'm a 'DREAM ENGINEER'.
One more thing, I feel that using Max in product modelling is a difficult job, what is your hints?

[anilec333]

以我所知國內對產品設計就比較常用啦,一般用rhino. 國內一般讀完產品設計的學生都不愁沒工做, 他們可以到上海廣州北京等較繁榮的城市工作, 這也算幾吃香.
以我所知產品設計最好有些少設計概念. 產品設計需要很精確的moldeling. 香港的情況我就不知了. 因我是澳門人

[anilec333]

想補充一下我所說的吃香......相信是國內生活水平較低及因為國內環境不同而已!
有好幾過國內朋友說有工作已經非常滿足!已經很好!

[Siegfried]

About precise modelling.....not exactly correctly in H.K, we have 2 types of product designer in H.K., the first is just responsible for aesthetic, so they ignore the structure and manufacturing and cost....just something for appearance. The second type will take care almost everything, from tooling, costing to packaging. Of course, precise modelling is needed for the latter type of designer.