Hows the pipline in general HK studio?

[HapZungLam]

Within these years. Topics in CGVS from "how to look for a job" to "hateful HK bosses".

I've never met or work with any HK business. But from what I heard, they are really trying to push the artist to death.

My personal experience is limited. From the company that i am working at, many ppl work overtime without overpay as well. However, I am undering the same supervisor for 3 projects and we never have to work over time. That's why I really want to understand the pipeline in general HK studio.

What do you do when you or your team recived a project. What goes first, who's incharge of what. And how the process until to the final product? How much time in general do they give you to finish from 1 stage to another? How much time do you "think" it should be giving in certain stage?

Lets talk about it and i'll share my own experience in a min.

[HammerChugoh]

The one I used to work just simply don't have any pipline or anything like that. Everyone handle one project, most likely small project that involved little CG and fast pace. A lot of time you got a week to get it done. And the client will do a review after 2 or 3 days and then you get comments on shots and spent the rest of the week to address them. I think it's kind of typical workflow in some of the small HK studios though. Anticipating people from relatively big studios to join this talk, as this is good to share.

[HapZungLam]

Is that mean, they have no drawings provided during the process? They just tell you what to do by words?

Every individual handle a project meaning from start to finish?

ps. feel free to reply in chinese (I can't type chinese..... i suck, but i can read)

[S'tephen]

[HammerChugoh]

I can't type chinese either. And I have to make it clear that all of these happened to me at about 3 to 4 years ago.

Everything was in rush, no artworks(sometimes there are storyboard to start with, but they are rather simple), you will need to guess what they want by those pretty conceptual and abstract description. The word "they" means those marketing people, it seems to me that they don't know much about art n design but they were making decisions :S.
And yes, most of the time you bring it from start to finish, you model, you texture it, you light it and comp it. Occasionally there are some bigger projects that require teamwork, but it's not that often.

[HapZungLam]

I guess no artist likes their producer and client. As you said, they don't know anything about art. It happens everywhere, its common. But they pay you the money, they have the power and the most important is, they owns the right.

That will be a big tip for all of the artist. I've just been thru this big time. I've been in this company for more than a year now. I almost forgot the number 1 rule of it. I had some comflicts with my supervisor and the art director last week. They want the bump map on everything. But in my oppinion, i don't suggest. 1. I understand what they are trying to achieve and putting bumps will not be what they want. 2. adding bump is not a 1 click process, I've to put alot of time to refine it until it look good. But they want it. Then I was kinda pissed and say "ok, be that way!"

I ran back to my spot and think about it for a sec. Oh yeah, why do i make it so complicate. They want it, just do it. It will make my life alot easier. If things screwed up or it turned out not what they want. It's not my fault. Its their call.

I remember my school instructor told me (now he is the head of my department) never fall in love with what you are working in here. Because they are not yours. That's the number 1 rule in the industry. You are working "for" someone, you don't have their copyright. You shouldn't fall in love with what you are working unless it is your personal work. As an artist, it is hard to achieve that but just keep that in mind.

Hope it'll help.

[HapZungLam]

why do you post a gif instead of typing in ????

anyways, nope, we dont' have trainning. Its not a school, this is a company. They are looking for professionals. If you suck, you are out.

I would really wish that they can give us an afternoon off whenever there has a 3D software event running in the town. so that we can check out what's new on the next version of our current software.

[luxoJr]

We do have trainning. Its not a company, this is a school. They are looking for students. If you suck, you are in.

[HammerChugoh]

I guess it went too far from pipline.

part of the meaning of pipline means you do what you should do, if it's one people working in a project, pipline will actually slow it down. But once it comes to a big project that need to bring everyone in. Pipline make sure everyone got what they need and even put them half way to the goal rite the way. But it does take time and effort to setup a pipline and it helps you from do the same setup for different people and different shot again and again.

[HapZungLam]

ideally (not often that will happen) we got the script, then the 2D art department will start their concepts and character design. Whenever the designs are arrived. Modeling department will start modeling. After the character is being modeled, will kick to the rigger to rig and at the same time texture artist will do the textures. (i really want them to do the texture part first, because sometimes the edgeloops may not run properly for UVing). Then we added the face shapes an so on. During the main time sets and envoirment will work on the same pipeline.

once both are finish( or partially finish) will pass on to the lighter and compositor.

most of these process will be giving 1-2 weeks to finish. it is all depend on the budget.

I can finish texturing a set in 2 weeks, 1 week or even 1 day. Yap. finish totally. But of cuz, if you give me 1 day, that will be less detail than if i can spend lots of time tweaking to the way i want it if i've giving 2 weeks.

[Wolf]

It's interesting that you should mention this topic which is one of my main areas of research in recent years. I think the lack of good pipeline design is the main limitation on the growth of HK companies into the next stage (consistent high quality feature animation production). Pipeline design is also one of the dark sciences (notice there's almost never any detailed mention of it in Siggraph).

The key is in automation -- at which points and how do you automate a production? Leave the machine jobs to machines, and the human jobs to humans, right? But, no, HK companies just have to do it the other way around -- have humans painstakingly repeating the same boring work over and over again, and have design work done in 倒模 machine style. No wonder they got such low efficiency The R&D (Rest & Download) departments in most HK companies are also 如同虛設.

This is a huge topic, and I don't want to give away too much, but actually there're many simple things that companies can do to increase productivity. For example, they could re-engineer their softwares' user interface (can be done easily and completely with Maya) to simplify operation for employees new to the tool. Doing this would also confine the operation expertise to the company, and discourage "press button" training in schools. Of course, it takes a patient company which looks for more than short-term running revenue to be willing to do this kind of thing. How many HK companies are like that? Anyway I don't think it's necessary to lament this situation -- sooner or later the big US boys will come to set up in this part of the world in force (it's already beginning), and local companies that don't prepare for that day will die. Sometimes I find those bosses who rip off their employees so pitiful -- they don't realise those employees are the only real long-term assets they have, and by killing the proverbial goose that lay golden eggs they're digging their own graves.

[HammerChugoh]

It 's basically try to work systematically

interface redesign for each show,
file structure and CVS system
farm management,
wiki and asset managment,
And specific production pipline that setup for a small group of shots and people


each show should have a different pipline and they can be reuse and improved if similar shots has to be done in future.

All of these are pretty much blank in Hongkong rite now.

[tdk]

It 's basically try to work systematically

interface redesign for each show,
file structure and CVS system
farm management,
wiki and asset managment,
And specific production pipline that setup for a small group of shots and people


each show should have a different pipline and they can be reuse and improved if similar shots has to be done in future.

All of these are pretty much blank in Hongkong rite now.

only one company have a real pipeline (although not perfect) in Hong Kong. And they are the only company take it seriously.

[h2o]

你呢句可圈可點喎..... 我對 rendering 既 pipeline 都好serious 架 , rendering tools (plugin & mel), layer pass, renderfarm & compositing.

不過算唔算 real 我就唔知喇, 起碼以我知識所限底下, render layer passes & compositing, 我覺得自己仍然做得未夠好, 距離外國仲差一截, 慚愧, 慚愧

[HammerChugoh]

only one company have a real pipeline (although not perfect) in Hong Kong. And they are the only company take it seriously.

hey man, can you talk more about that? I know it may involve some sensitive information, but it will be great if we can know more about their pipline.