畢業生??

[葉仙兒]

[葉仙兒]

首先我想澄清,我所指的獻丑不如藏拙是針對某人對於idn的誤解,及企圖捉字虱而說的;我不知為什麼有人會聯想到其他方面身上.甚至於有人因此而斷章取義,及以不倫不類的比喻去穿鑿附會.

一直以來,我都認為Juno所持的觀點及疑問非常清晰,他質疑該會的代表性;可惜一直以來根本從來沒有明確的回應,回應者根本只懂顧左右而言他去逃避問題的核心,或像小丑般插科打諢去胡扯一番.
既然HKAA的創辦人有意選用如此具爭議性的名稱,並公開了這個團體組織,你們的一舉一動將會受到業界及大眾關注,並應該早早預料到會接收到不同的意見,無論是負面或正面的;可惜當你們只是稍為遇到批評,就表現得方寸大亂,亦沒有作出任何正式的回應.你們不成熟的表現,將會使你們的公信力及代表性進一步拉低,又如何叫人信服?
說真的,我亦不想說如此重的話,亦不是想打擊你們創會的決心;不過希望你們明白現實並不像校園般可以胡混過去.既然你們作出了某些決定,就要預備承擔其社會上的責任及後果.

再說,香港的不同界別代表團體的組成(例如HKxx/HKxA),通常都代表了其整個功能組別在本地的發言,或努力為其界別爭取福利,請問你們有信心及能力去承擔這責任嗎? 因此團體代表主席的公信力及代表性便成為了一個非常重要的考慮因素. (其中政治因素不在討論范圍之內)

當然以上的情況對你們來說是過份了一點,我亦不相信業界朋友會推舉你們作為其香港代表吧.

不過我只是想藉以提醒你們,真實社會上的責任,及請學習如何接受及尊重不同意見的批評吧!

最後補充一點,我亦曾經上過你們的網站,知道你們是一群很團結及對電腦動畫充滿熱情的朋友,我亦相信有部份同學在未來五至十年有機會成為業界的支柱,既然如此何必在現時太過急進,並把目標定得如此高呢?
真的最後,希望你們HKAA能在以後為香港的動畫行業共同獻出一分力吧!

ps: 對於HapZungLam認為該會的水平便是等於香港的平均水平,說笑吧?我相信主要原因是你人在海外,而亦未真正接觸過香港業界的真正實況才有如此誤解吧~當然,我亦非常認同正視自己的短處才能有進步,並努力提升拉近香港與世界水平的想法;不過這只是很概括性的說法.當我們真正面對很多實則的事情時,不去真正面對某些細節的話,以上所說的理論亦只會變得紙上談兵及空泛.

[Siegfried]

Relax everyone, learning from others is a wonderful way of learning, pls stop this argue, alright?
Peace not war, right?

[cgworker]

你地系咪玩緊辯論比賽 ?

[cybersun]

Dear All,

I am an animator and I know the members of HKAA. I know that they had a meeting for this forum's argument. And they had decided not to respond to such meaningless argument. Personally, I agree with their decision not to respond at all. But I do want to share my opinions to you all youngsters.

Actually, I am quite old a man. I studied my first degree in Film and my Master degree in Cultural Studies. I may be regarded as a well-educated person. I totally disagree that anybody uses the rude words like illiterate to speak against the other. You should know that some illiterates are not willing to be illiterates but they have not got the chance to learn. This world is not completely fair to everybody. Besides, illiterates, like my mother, should not be subordinated as marginal and minority group in our society.

I cannot accept Juno's stereoptyped concept about association as well. I know many people regard that 'association' means an official, professional organisation, especially under the logic of capitalism and Americanism. In fact, anybody and even the minority groups like the homosexual associations in Hong Kong have their rights to set up their associations for their own benefits and these associations mostly help assemble people of similar interest. These are very meaningful and useful. We should not support the so-called professionals, even though I am a professional animator in the industry, especially the American Associations to dominate the world.

Why cannot Hong Kong young animators come together to do something that may not be professional enough but really meaningful to our new generation? I am not speaking for HKAA that decided not to respond to this forum right now. Actually, you can find that HKAA has never stated that they represent Hong Kong. But I don't want people, you the young generation to waste your valuable time to make naive and non-sense argument here. As Siegfried said, please stop the war here.

I hope you all can join together to strengthen the animation industry in no matter how much you know about animation.

Do animation; love animation. It should be funny but not angry.

God Bless You!

[Juno]

cybersun 的文章的確不錯，既感人亦有立場!

就大家的回應，有幾點要說 : 你們常說我 不應打擊現在青年人組織自己的團體，甚至說我在睇死你們，你們的反對論點完全離題!
錯! 我提出的問題根本不是這些 ! cybersun 在文中更說"Why cannot Hong Kong young animators come together to do something that may not be professional enough but really meaningful to our new generation? "，從你這句更清楚離題的說話 !!　
我從沒有說過青年不要組織代表他們層面的組織 ! 大家需知道，好聽的說話誰也懂得說，但不要藉此來誤導我的立場!

如果依你們所說，則你們認為"香港動畫創作協會"是具代表性的 , 是嗎??
那如我先前，如果一群讀完'工聯會'舉辨的醫療保健課程後，便成立個"香港醫療保健協會 " 你也認為這會具代表性 ? 是嗎 ?
你們的立場就是這樣，對嗎?

正如"葉仙兒"說 香港不同界別代表團體的組成,通常都代表了其整個功能組別的 !

其實我只是就此提出質疑，亦相信有很多人會有這樣的想法，
我認為他們用"香港動畫創作協會"代表自己是有問題的做法，是不務實的!!

協會回不回應，也不要緊，反正這裡只是問題討論，未必需要有確實的答案，
不過該協會如果一如 cybersun 所說認為這是meaningless argument，的確令我感到你們只是小團子一群!!!

大家在討論時是需要有論點/論據和立場，討論的氣氛不一定要很和諧，有時也會很激烈，
但這絕對不會是 naive 及 non-sense 更加不是 meaningless argument 或更甚的竟說 WAR !!!

討論區內沒有爭辯的話，摺左佢好了!!

[BMBM]

討論區內沒有爭辯的話，摺左佢好了!!

甚是, 我頂一下

[HapZungLam]

如果依你們所說，則你們認為"香港動畫創作協會"是具代表性的 , 是嗎??

Let me make myself clear. At the first place, i mean, when i first heard of this name, i really DONT feel anything as heavy as you've mention - 具代表性. So that i always say that it is just a name for a group of grads who love 3D, would like to group it up.

However, because of our arguements, they 'll become more 具代表性 from now on. Since we push it to have. Further saying, we are blowing from small to big. Which isn't a bad thing for them tho.

香港不同界別代表團體的組成,通常都代表了其整個功能組別的 !

Ah..... not really, take a look in their website. Do they mention their destination? their 功能? Any responsibility about HK? no they didn't

"香港動畫創作協會"代表自己是有問題的做法，是不務實的!!

That's why cybersun said this is a meaninless arguement. Don't put it too serious Juno.

不過該協會如果一如 cybersun 所說認為這是meaningless argument，的確令我感到你們只是小團子一群!!!

If you standing at an angle that they must 代表香港. Then maybe you are right. And even, we should argue about their existence. I mean, we should argue - should they form a group that have this kind of heavy duty to 代表香港

討論區內沒有爭辯的話，摺左佢好了!!

True, but i dont' think we need to pay that much attention to what a group of grads of forming an association. And we have to argue about they name they made for themselves is right or wrong.

[lumay]

Dear Mr. Juno,

Juno is a perfect non-smooth polygon idol. I like him very much indeed.
Well , Do you have name? Did you ask for permission for anyone?
My friend is called Lee Ka Shing, he is now about 40. I don't think his name has anything related to HK richest man. Do you think if he could not be rich as him? He shall be changed his name, or even has to kill himsself?
Secondly, Name is just a Name. We all live in here! you can name yourself Hong Kong greatest handsome man - Juno! What can I do about it! People have eyes and their own judge.
I don't think HKAA have the best animation of HK, and do you think HK government has the best administrative persons of Hong Kong?
HKU is all the best student of HK?
I think they are just a group of animation enthusiasts. I don't see any wrong with them. It is better than many people, who is sitting there yelling and shouting about something, but never have guts to do anything.
Finally, HKAA is not equal to the good animations of hong kong! It should be a place for anyone who love animation in HONG KONG!
I want to ask Mr. JUNO what is good animation? Do you know Arts?
If you don't, go and read some books, then come back and tell us.
I am so happy somebody can do something about what they like.
As A hongkong people, I proud of you all.

THanks

[onionhead08]

at first i don't wanna post about this but i can't help it after seeing some of the response here.....

i think "HKAA Hong Kong Animation Assoication" is not a suitable name for them. at least not yet

what's its objective? any mission statement? who is the leader? who are the members?
can they represent HK animation industry? can i join them? how? any requiirment to join? what's the benefit?
what's the responsibility?why do they need a marketing group? where does its funding come from?
is it a non-profit org? why is it some many typo on its website? they don't know how to do a spell check?
why on earth they didn't correct the grammer mistake on their web site? (check out the interview) why don't they just use chinese?

until they can answer all these questions and take themself seriously, they shouldn't use the name
"HKAA Hong Kong Animation Assoication". because the name suggest it represents HK animations
industry(which they don't). and i have seen too many people using "names" to benefit themselves. esp the
"marketing group"...

on the other hand, if they do become an association that represent HK animations, i will gladly join them.

peace

PS profession: "a principal calling, vocation, or employment " it doesn't mean good work. it means "employment"
the last i saw most of them r still in school. beside, being employed in the industry doesn't necessary mean u have to
do great work or knows "Art".

PS2 i guess if the name is 學會 intead of 協會 is better.

PS3 it's sad to see some of the posts here. we r talking about a very reasonable topic here but a lot of noise and name-calling in the response. the people who post here r supposed to be educated and r " the future of HK". the future does look kinda bleak.

[Vector]

個人亦覺得"學會"比"協會"較好.
若果真有一個動畫協會是由業界創立,非但沒有異議,更會舉腳支持。若果是學生創立,除非他們真的一鳴驚人...
很難用李超人來比喻這件事,好勉強.世上可能有好多人叫Lee Ka Shing,這名亦非未必是自己意願,大多是巧合吧,但香港這地方只有一個吧.
我諗Juno比喻系類似:
1. 假定在USA,有數個3D愛好者自己創立一個叫美國動畫師協會,但竟沒有ILM, Pixar, PDI.,等等動畫師參加,若你在網上看見,你第一個印像會如何?

2. 一班愛演戲劇的學生搞個香港演藝人協會,有幾多藝人會參加?有代表性嗎? 代表性有多大?

我想,該會也不想有一天聽到更難聽的批評吧!

P.S. 為何同名便要死,咁激動?不會是該會的人吧?!若是的話便沒有什麼好爭辨

若果始終認為HKAA是最好,我亦只有講句勇氣可嘉

[dragon999]

!! someone seem open minded, but someone is still.... !
Why Hong Kong arts can't develop so well, cos no one have the guts, brave and heart to be a starter, will you? you? or you? If the HKAA can be a starter to push the hong kong animation more step forward, then why not? Can you do it for something else? Can you die for somthing? I know some of the HKAA member, they all have daytime job, they develop HKAA with thier dream, with their hope, with thier objective, but most of all is for HONG KONG. As you guys said they are not 代表性. Wrong totally Wrong, I'm not said they can 代表 Hong Kong. I mean they are doing someting for HONG KONG. Exclude pay tax, not throw rubbish on the street, what else you did or doing FOR HONG KONG.

P.s Don't forget they specified 香港動畫"創作"協會
Think about it!

shame on you!

[cgworker]

董建華夠話佢好勤力咁想攪好香港,佢做乜都系為左香港好咋...
董太就話乜你地剩系識complain, complain, complain架...
Think about it 2!

[dragon999]

hahaha! 董建華 yes you right can 董建華 代表 Hong Kong?
That mean can 代表 or not, isn't respresent the group or person is good or not.
don't argue anymore, 代表性 or not is not me, you and anybody else can judge!

[badBoy]

HKDA, HKMA, HKTB, HKJA, HKFCA, and HKAA??
有兩樣野想問...
1) 睇過你地網址,點解唔見有任何會員名單? 請問邊個系會長呀? 有邊個系會員?個會長點選出黎架?你地咁有guts,咁brave,冇理由唔敢公開架.... (就算,客觀上都應該畀人知道架)
2) 大家公平討論gei, 不過硬系唔明d 支持HKAA派, 次次發表實要加d,罵人唔識英文呀,唔識藝術呀,唔愛香港呀, 又或者亂扣人帽子o既說話.....講野開始似葉劉? 定曾x成?

ps: I LOVE HK CG